Chuck Yates Got A Job

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Unknown
You know, it's wild in an industry that powers the world. We still struggle to find the right answers when we need them most. That's why we built collide. Collide is where energy professionals go to solve problems faster. It's a community completely focused on oil and gas. Whether you're out in the field making deals or just trying to keep up with the industry, collide connects you with the people, knowledge and tools you need all in one place.

00;00;29;12 - 00;00;56;22
Unknown
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Unknown
Energy moves fast. Don't get left behind.

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Unknown
Shook. Yeats is a self-proclaimed towering giant of the energy business. After graduating, Magnum cum laude loaded Delta, we like to party from Rice University with a B.A. in political science and litany of B.S.. He later ran product design for Apple, where Steve Jobs proclaimed him so valuable that if Chuck left, I'd be reduced to wearing nothing but black turtlenecks for all time.

00;01;37;16 - 00;02;08;04
Unknown
Chuck joined the Houston office of Stephens Incorporated, the little Rock, Arkansas investment bank, where he strove to do well but not well enough to get promoted to little Rock. After figuring out he was a really crappy investment, he moved on to the principal side where he feared not much. What is everyone who has spent more than 30s with Chuck know he did the legendary Silver Heel deal.

00;02;08;06 - 00;02;41;11
Unknown
Interestingly enough, Chuck once won a bid from Superman where the loser had to wear his underwear on the outside of his clothes. Despite all of these achievements, in the post-Covid spring of 2020, Chuck was switching from his gig as a managing partner. He did make Wall Street Journal, so at least he had that.

00;02;41;13 - 00;03;04;13
Unknown
Another good story I don't think a lot of you have to is aware of, because it happens relatively early, about what time of year for you, whatever that is. It's the origin of the was. Which is the funniest thing on YouTube and still, I think the origin story is even me or frankly, so, so what's for sure?

00;03;04;16 - 00;03;31;29
Unknown
You know, skilling always had Mr. Skilling, which we are all aware of and we obviously knew before Friday comes from his other account. Mr. Stone. But the way that other account came to be was completely accidental. It really what happened was, Mr. Skilling, you know, he was kind of firing bombs, like from the old stores, and we kind of went a little astray, and ventured into Greenpeace's free.

00;03;32;01 - 00;03;59;13
Unknown
There was this video of Greenpeace protesters blocking traffic on the bridge. Totally free. Some ship channel. I can't remember its name. And so often for this bunch of Greenpeace protesters walking traffic in Houston and screaming, since this video be posted, like all economic hardship number of Houston, skilling says something to the effect of he wants to jump off that point.

00;03;59;15 - 00;04;24;26
Unknown
And so I mean I don't know about you Chuckling traffic's pretty bad. But I feel like when someone is holding traffic up in Houston that they should jump off a bridge is pretty tame. But you know, whenever you do it on Greenpeace's account. So for central, right. Long story short, if you just plug on this context, disable and so on.

00;04;25;00 - 00;04;48;09
Unknown
So you're DMZ immediately after it happened. What should I just wash my towel? I was kind of instigated this whole, free skilling kind of movement, and it's kind of like you're free Ferris Bueller or whatever. And you set up mr. Skilling's ultimate account and started basically wealth and built all these followers. And then at some point in the next couple months, Mr. Skilling was reinstated.

00;04;48;10 - 00;05;22;09
Unknown
So he's got these two accounts. He doesn't know what to do with the extra account, and he has this flash of brilliance. Which, you know, we all appreciate today. It's a little bit farther out of it. So, you know, I don't think many people in the have to have a lot of fun playing PS4, but that may be one that we should all.

00;05;22;11 - 00;05;53;24
Unknown
Welcome, everybody to episode five of Chuck Yates Needs a Job. The podcast tonight in the House the man who needs no introduction. Energy. Freaking cynic energy. Cynic. I would give your background. I would say who you are, introduce you. But I have no clue. So welcome in. Except for everybody. So let's jump right into this. I mean, you are the big dog on energy finance, Twitter.

00;05;53;24 - 00;06;19;05
Unknown
In fact, I was DMing with some of the folks earlier and Quickdraw, Quickdraw capital actually said you are the number one draw on energy, finance, Twitter, the whole reason he's here. So tell me about energy finance, Twitter. How did you get involved? What does it mean to you? Thanks for the compliment. Cook for all of you. There's a lot, a lot of great accounts.

00;06;19;07 - 00;06;46;16
Unknown
You have to me. I got involved I this early American history, but really followed. I was excited to pull me. A couple years ago, I was, I was curious and, on Twitter, a couple things that he had posted or told me and, and, and I just started getting into it and tweeting and before you know, it, you know, started doing followers and follow more people.

00;06;46;19 - 00;07;04;07
Unknown
Skilling, I think, was there before me and he was already kind of far and away. So just jump on the bandwagon and before you know it, this thing from snowballed into what it is today. So it's been a great, great ride, a lot of fun. But what about talent on your team? Does it's true more people join.

00;07;04;09 - 00;07;30;11
Unknown
So I think, any crown that any of us have, there's just there's there's so much more talent in industry today if we can call you for an industry. And so, you know, it's it's been a fun ride now. You've been great. You're you're hysterical. You're really funny. I love reading your stuff. You've taken numerous shots at me, but, we'll go, we'll, we'll let bygones be bygones.

00;07;30;11 - 00;07;50;28
Unknown
But that being said, you've always been, been fair. What are some of the funny things that have happened to you on Twitter, maybe that we're not able to read because obviously all of us follow you. We all see your funny tweets. Is there is there funny stuff going on outside of here that, that we need to know about this a lot?

00;07;50;29 - 00;08;17;08
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, I think some of the funniest things that have happened to me or any of the, taking place behind the scenes were most people can't see them. I, you know, there's several good stories I'll share a few of them, you know, everything from interesting people then to following you, to stories, you know, of, of of how the tweets affect, different organizations.

00;08;17;08 - 00;08;44;26
Unknown
And in terms of some of the followers we've gotten, I know some of the bigger Charles have also gotten the same ones, and the best ones are ones that are clearly, either, you know, CEOs who are using their wives or their daughters accounts to follow us. And, you know, one, for example, is, all of a sudden I get a follow from, you kind of lost me, and it looks very familiar.

00;08;44;28 - 00;09;14;03
Unknown
And with a female meme attached to it. And start digging into it a little bit more, and before you know it, you're looking at their followers. And in this case, there was a bunch of high society on the team. Interior design follows, plus your teams. It was pretty clear that either this was a hold account or, you know, one of the, one of the CEOs was, you know, the CEO is kind, you know, the target of a lot of criticism.

00;09;14;08 - 00;09;35;21
Unknown
You have to be overdue. It's just a one time. Okay? Okay, I got to ask, are you going to give up the name? I'll say I'm in this company. We it at that and everyone to put 1 or 2 together. Okay, okay. But I'll leave it to people's imaginations of the one calling, you know?

00;09;35;21 - 00;10;02;17
Unknown
So. Yeah, but it's just funny because there's this person following you, and there's all this little fire and brimstone going left and right. And then all of a sudden, the same individuals, like in your other tweets. So you can start burning, start riffing on your whatever, you know, politics or other companies and, Mrs. Permian all of a sudden there's just of white.

00;10;02;21 - 00;10;29;06
Unknown
Well, so, you know, it's either the CEO and his wife account or maybe his wife is just like, suspected. He's been the capital destroyer or my entire manager finally feels like she does not work herself. So that was pretty funny. That's that's awesome. So when, when actually I got the boot from Kane, and, you know, Twitter kind of had their 48, 72 hour firestorm.

00;10;29;08 - 00;10;55;19
Unknown
Someone pointed out that my son Charlie was going on liking tweets about me that were making fun of me. So, I feel somewhat sympathetic now. Did the did the wife ever actually like a tweet disparaging their husband? I don't remember, but it's quite possible some of those tweets were very off. I what he's you might have snuck in that, one.

00;10;55;21 - 00;11;20;20
Unknown
It's funny to mention kids because, you know, I think teenage daughters Twitter accounts are also a favorite of, different people trying to, like, you kind of see what's going on on U of T and one another. Funny stories. And some people are you have to remember this. There was a period of time earlier this year where, you know, certain private equity firms, kitchen associates and people going back and forth.

00;11;20;20 - 00;11;37;03
Unknown
I mean, I mean, there may not have been involved in some of those tweets at all. The same, this account shows up and I forget the handle. Exactly. For I think it was like Jojo seawall 69.

00;11;37;05 - 00;11;57;15
Unknown
I was like, why don't you just squawk 69? You know a lot about this civil war, mobile billion dollar private equity firm. That's interesting. And same story and double follows. And it's been there for billions between. Should give me a tweet. So it's intimate. And this particular person was kind of went on and on and on and on.

00;11;57;15 - 00;12;20;27
Unknown
So yeah this definitely I think that's to me that's just hilarious. And there's all these kind of threads running underneath your feet and all these inflammatory tweets and tweets kind of calling out that activity and, and behind the scenes. And we all know there's that at this point, based on friends of ours who are in this industry, that everyone was kind of checking it out right at this point.

00;12;20;27 - 00;12;45;17
Unknown
And so, that some of the stuff we see last one or we do to and this one happened to be, so, it's particularly, you know, foreign to me or Philadelphia scene from time a few months ago, another CEO, you know, so I put a tweet out there and and it wasn't even that crazy. I think I said something like, hey, I heard something's going down at X company.

00;12;45;17 - 00;13;14;24
Unknown
What's up? You know, so interesting question. Foreign. No, it was for me. Instead of just doing all form, you know, all these different events with this company and apparently the CEOs, particularly the tested out there. So this is happening and I, you know, I think much of it was a guy like, I kind of got, you know, the Dark Wolf, some woke up and whatever, you know, what people thought and then later in the day.

00;13;14;24 - 00;13;44;27
Unknown
So it was a warning that went out later in the day to get the stuff from someone at the company. This occurred, you know, this this whole morning, we train off the attention of a certain someone of this company. And he asked his executive assistant to print out every tweet to study. You know, I'm I'm sitting there imagining some poor, you know, executive assistant in mid 50s, probably not seeing the CEO folks.

00;13;44;27 - 00;14;06;13
Unknown
So, like when you print off all these tweets and so she's got to figure out Twitter. She's going through these tweets a personal forum from like from what I heard through the, you know, spent spend an evening studying them, you know, probably having glass of bourbon, trying to figure out like who was front slap, you know, who was.

00;14;06;15 - 00;14;28;15
Unknown
With to this day, I'm not convinced that, that, executive assistant in a big city is probably just, you know, did anonymous account. Just anyone of people who knows there's a lot of stuff they're talking about? That's hysterical. So while we're talking funny, I've got to give you your props on this, but it's going to lead to, to to a real question.

00;14;28;15 - 00;15;00;16
Unknown
But so Ken gives me the boot talking about earlier, 48 72 hours of, you know, Twitter firestorm going on. And what was so funny about it is, you know, I'm friends with Joel. I think everybody knows that. And, anyway, I was screenshotting each one of the tweets that mentioned her because people were, you know, saying things like, you know, oh, we would have thought you and Kane, you were meant for me and, you know, just spoofing on that.

00;15;00;19 - 00;15;25;17
Unknown
But anyway, I was sending tweets to her screenshotting them, and she was just like, good God, Chuck, find something better to do. We're going to have to, you know, we're going to have to find something for you to occupy your time. Besides social media. And, anyway, so she jumped on Twitter and actually tweeted back to somebodies tweet.

00;15;25;17 - 00;15;57;02
Unknown
I don't know who it was, but tweeted back, hey guys, this is funny, but you can stop. Only I get to make fun of Chuck. And you had the best tweet because you responded to that tweet saying there are two people in energy finance, Twitter. Number one, those who are shocked that Jules actually acknowledging energy finance, Twitter. And then number two, the second group, people that are actually creepy dual stalkers.

00;15;57;04 - 00;16;27;03
Unknown
And then you said the Venn diagram is Chuck. Yeah. So the so that was that was funny. But but and and in all seriousness during all that the firestorm energy finance Twitter was great to me. I mean, everybody was funny. They were fair. I think the other good one was today I'm stumbling around and drunk in my torn jeans and on Chuck Yates, but let me ask you this in all seriousness.

00;16;27;05 - 00;16;58;13
Unknown
Is it fair to be anonymous on Twitter and actually, throw out the barbs? You do? Yeah, it's a good question. Obviously, I think it's fair, sitting where I'm sitting, but, you know, I think the whole industry is built from, from. Right. And so you walk around all day long and you go to meetings and you just participate in the industry, and it's nonstop motion, and there's no Chuck moment.

00;16;58;15 - 00;17;28;14
Unknown
Writers, equity research funders are all addicts. And there's, you know, employees obviously can't speak down. So it's just a secret system that makes it very difficult for brutal honesty to get out there. And what I think is so great about Anonymous Twitter is that it's pure, right? I mean, it's it's a direct kind of channel for honesty and, and, you know, for 24 years, all of some actions of different, you know, participants in our industry.

00;17;28;16 - 00;17;52;21
Unknown
I think it's, I think a good thing I think it, provokes thought and, and brings a lot of a lot of topics that are in the shadows to the forefront. So, yeah. No, I think I think there's a storm surge, but I think anonymous Twitter, and it's plural film, you know, be a better fit for people to go into for it.

00;17;52;23 - 00;18;21;00
Unknown
And I think that it needs to check itself if it does check itself. And I think actually having the blurring of. Anonymous. Anonymous. Anonymous accounts like you and others. Probably, you know, acts as a regulatory mechanism a little bit on the really old stuff that sometimes gets a little turn to, to go to difficult. So I think I think it's a good thing, but not without its downsides.

00;18;21;00 - 00;18;47;24
Unknown
And media matters. You know, and and what I'll go ahead and say is I actually agree with that. I do think the information flow is important. I have seen that it self regulates. I mean, I've had some moments where some things have been said and, you know, bomber will jump in and defend me or the like. And so, I think it's a good thing I can, I can, I can definitely buy off on that.

00;18;47;24 - 00;19;22;26
Unknown
And, and at the end of the day, I will again say it's always been really fair to me. Yeah. I think and I think, you know, your particular approach for kids can take control. And so the curiosity element about, if, if you've ever been in the crosshairs, the media rebels, and even if people can't, you know, there's always think people that people are not assholes and thresholds everywhere, but, if you if I said something in your opinion, I mean, I do think that I'll think about it.

00;19;22;26 - 00;19;43;20
Unknown
And I've seen people do that a dozen times. So, yeah, I think you're right. I think it's a good place. I think it's generally good natured. Everyone's hear the word, everyone's heard over the time. Oh, I never wanted to, you know, grow and make our energy community better in this weird, twisted way that we've all kind of stumbled upon.

00;19;43;22 - 00;20;06;11
Unknown
To do that, I chalk having you on your team in our performance regard. Know, I think a lot of the reason why people drop in the beautiful the reason why you should in our industry, you work around, taking place. And I don't know about you, but I don't really see a lot of, you know, CEOs sitting in my.

00;20;06;12 - 00;20;39;21
Unknown
Don't worry. You know, we'll get through this not work for me, but it's mostly like, yeah, it's really bad. You know, this is going through not just the most read material on the way out. You know, see? Other regards. But, you know, I'm so I'm very just, and I think that's our universe as well as people are right now, like, I, you know, for the people who look up to, that's a very well securities of, people who are in the of the universe, which I have a tough time from open meetings.

00;20;39;24 - 00;21;11;23
Unknown
Yeah. No, I mean that that's actually a really good point. I mean, you know, unfortunately, too many of our CEOs that had their great run made their incredibly graceful exits, could be senior statesmen, came back into this and just messed it up, you know, and I'm not going to name any names, but obviously, you know, the folks know I'm talking about and, and because it was just so bad.

00;21;11;23 - 00;21;37;26
Unknown
I mean, if this were, you know, college football, I mean, not even Barry Switzer could win in this environment. I mean, we really did have just the massive Black Swan on so many levels. And so you're right, it, it it is really hard because we don't you know, now that you're saying that we really don't have a lot in the way of leadership that we can, we can look to.

00;21;37;26 - 00;22;01;12
Unknown
And I've actually felt really bad taking those 100 phone calls, talking to folks, because I don't feel like I have any good words I can give, these people that I'm talking to, I the one thing I have done when I have those phone calls and this is serious, you've been a laugh when I say this, but it is serious.

00;22;01;15 - 00;22;26;20
Unknown
I've actually I started out with. Can you move back in with your parents? If all goes bad and you know, it, it you kind of get a laugh, you get a chuckle and all. But, you know, this really is kind of the environment when doing something entrepreneurial makes a lot of sense. I mean, as people say, if you're going to start a an oil and gas company today, what would you do, Chuck?

00;22;26;20 - 00;22;56;01
Unknown
And I'd say, well, I wouldn't, but, you know, if you're going to do it, I mean, this is really the time when somebody goes out and knocks on doors and farmlands in Kansas and buys up a bunch of working interest, or it's somebody that goes and, knocks on doors in Colorado because that might be the ugliest oil and gas environment out there and buys up stuff and, you know, is very disciplined, uses its own money, uses his or her own money.

00;22;56;03 - 00;23;22;03
Unknown
Maybe it's somebody that decides to figure out how to use new technology. We have in such a way that they can have a competitive advantage. It was really interesting. One of the one of the large independents that's out there. I'm really good friends with their head of strategy, and we went and had a drink and we were talking about things I was talking about because I've joined the advisory board, Cottonwood Ventures.

00;23;22;05 - 00;23;49;25
Unknown
So I am not an energy technology guy per se, but I'm kind of being drawn into it. And I had done some of it back at Stevens 20 years ago when, before I joined Kane and I was talking about, well, you know, I'm seeing all this I, they're using to automate lifting and etc. and the response was really interesting is, yes, a lot of that technology makes a lot of sense.

00;23;49;25 - 00;24;18;11
Unknown
It it cuts cost. We just don't have the people to be able to implement it. Because you need to have a person. You need to have a person get immersed in it so that they can actually tell the CFO, the CFO, hey, here's how we're going to use it. Here's how it works. And, and does this. And so that's what my advice ones have been to these people that I have the discussion with is go do something entrepreneurial.

00;24;18;13 - 00;24;52;01
Unknown
If you can move back in with your parents, if all all else fails, well, that's not the end of the world. And, because I plan to move back in with my parents before I get another job. This is too cool being unemployed, but really go out and figure out something some new way to do things, because at the end of the day, I mean, that's the opportunity staring you in the face because the old model of let's get an engineer, land man and geologist together and go get a $500 million equity line of credit from a private equity shop that's just not happening.

00;24;52;03 - 00;25;17;09
Unknown
And I really do think if you're going to be competitive going forward, you have to be able to do something, whether that's a skill, whether that's identifying deals or something. You have to be able to do something that the rest of the market can't do, or else you're not going to have a leg up. I mean, in this, there's a million nutrients of energy.

00;25;17;11 - 00;25;47;29
Unknown
You know, and why just just because US onshore flow is, you know, we we worry. Engineering. There's not a million different places in the state, but a young controversial control country right now. And the thing to a lot of these people are in those situations were all you need to remember is, you know, they got drawn into energy because energy was a hard thing growing, you know, extremely competitive, you know, industry.

00;25;48;02 - 00;26;17;19
Unknown
And so by virtue of that attractive time, to my definition, if you're one of those people, you know, if it's if you have musical chairs that arbitrarily came into the room because they were talented and ambitious, like, that's right. And so you just need to, to, in some other, some other categories. But I'm with you on my it really I'm curious to get their view on this because there's a few things that you guys talked about during your show, you activity that I love to cover.

00;26;17;19 - 00;26;41;02
Unknown
But, I mean, I think where the industry stands today, do you think it's going to get significantly better market, better business, like you said, the worst in a century. There is really no more lower. So at some point it's going to turn. But I really do believe beyond some of the terms you're talking about, we're going to hit a motorcycle.

00;26;41;04 - 00;27;14;04
Unknown
I think coming out of the storm at the Boston, which I think really would people realize would be good for the estimate for the noise. But if we do have all the fireworks and the shell industry and the first American version of the same band ultimately got a neutral with with only, you can't not really showmanship was going to be decimated right now.

00;27;14;06 - 00;27;33;24
Unknown
To be able to travel and and everyone you know, that's the big question. And all this time, you know, it's like it's going to get better. And so whether it's the third stuff we talked about or just for me, you know, I in time people will generally be expected to be the same number of people do before.

00;27;33;24 - 00;27;59;11
Unknown
Like you said, if you're not going to do exposure acreage. So our our model was just drawings of us as normal way. So yeah, I mean there's just there's not a reason to drill another. Well in the United States. I mean, I get it, we need to maintain leases etc. and, and the like. But at the end of the day, if we were perfectly rational, we probably wouldn't drill another well in the United States, at least for a while.

00;27;59;12 - 00;28;24;16
Unknown
Because what did we do? We took 15 million barrels off line, 20 million barrels off line, kind of at the height of, the Covid. And so we at least know where the first 15 to 20 million barrels of recovered demand are going to come from is turning, turning wells back online. And OPEC now has, you know, 7 million, 8 million a day.

00;28;24;16 - 00;28;48;00
Unknown
Reasons to g to to bring it back online. But you're absolutely right. I mean, nothing cures low oil prices like low oil prices. And at the end of the day, it's just not going away. I was doing this for a while because, when we were out fundraising, you get hit with, oh, electric vehicles are going to take, take over.

00;28;48;06 - 00;29;10;07
Unknown
So I got I may I gave this speech about five times where you get up there and you you I would read headlines from the New York Times. I said, okay, let's start off with some headlines. Electric vehicles poised to take over, electric vehicles performance. So much better than, than the internal combustion engine. And I read like 3 or 4.

00;29;10;10 - 00;29;30;10
Unknown
And then I'd run through all the stats and say there's 300 million internal combustion engines in the United States. And when we look out ten years from now, you know, how many of those are going to be on the road? All of them. I mean, we build really good cars today. So when, you know, when's the last time you ever said, man, that internal combustion engine just doesn't work anymore.

00;29;30;10 - 00;29;54;11
Unknown
I got to get a new car. Never. I mean, you sell your car and you can go buy a Tesla, but at the end of the day, somebody else is driving that car. And so even if Tesla captures half the market and we sell, you know, 7 million cars a year in the United States, 6 million of them are actually below $40,000 in price.

00;29;54;14 - 00;30;16;19
Unknown
I mean, that's ten years from now. That's 35 million Teslas out on the road and 335 million internal combustion engines. So it's not it's not going away anytime soon. So I'd rattle through all those stats and the Boeing and Airbus story I told earlier about not having even a patent on an electric plane, and how that makes up 21% of demand.

00;30;16;19 - 00;30;35;16
Unknown
That's kind of pre-COVID. And then I'd always say thank you very much. And I kind of get the polite applause, and I'd walk two steps off, and then I'd come back to the podium and I'd say, oh, by the way, the headlines I read from The New York Times, 1917, 1918 and 1919, this shit's been around for a long time.

00;30;35;16 - 00;30;57;01
Unknown
It's nothing new. So, yeah, we're not gone anywhere as a as an industry. And if if you love the industry, then you should stay in it. I mean, that's the other thing I say on these phone calls. I'm like, if you love it. I mean, they're no better people. I honestly believe that there are no better people in the, in the world than oil and gas folks.

00;30;57;01 - 00;31;18;04
Unknown
And so you should stay in. It's just a question of figuring out different way to do something. Take a fresh set of eyes to figure it out and figure out what your advantage is going to be. And then and then that's what you can, you can do with it. Yeah, I completely agree on your point. And it's got some of the stuff.

00;31;18;06 - 00;31;45;26
Unknown
I mean, we we saw so much recently about energy as we saw so much with the dual standard, and we saw all the, you know, power to the market, you know, it's own 12 volt perception. So all these of nerves being spawned and went to the electric car market, to the New World. Yeah, that looks familiar. You know, the way the way things are portrayed and the all the talking stick, projections because that's true for for all of us.

00;31;45;26 - 00;32;12;11
Unknown
I think you look at it, the not only does it feel like a substantial threat, it's also wardrobe, very skeptical by virtue of if I can just kind of loop through a similar narrative spin, which ended up not being true, I think it's quite easy to not believe over time we're going to transition. But, you know, the other thing, always people sorry for cars can be people separately.

00;32;12;13 - 00;32;37;04
Unknown
But, you know, when the electric car is not a semiconductor, you know, it doesn't just get massively burned to the moon virtually every time. You know, it is a car. I know it's fundamentally it's made of steel and the battery has all these other components. You know, you really just break the logic of what the chair is, you know, 25% of what people are claiming.

00;32;37;07 - 00;32;53;24
Unknown
The price, for one thing, was going to explode. The price for cobalt works for all these components that are just going to go up in price. And actually, you know, it's just going to be so cost competitive. People will just won't be able to resist. You know, it's still people. It's going to play. Other people believe it's going to play out.

00;32;53;28 - 00;33;16;15
Unknown
Even beyond that, it's just it's 400 points of wheat the size of whoever you are. And other countries, not to mention the doping groups. And it's not to say it's not from a subset of defined points. Suddenly think about the future. I'm sure it's one of those things because, you know, there's only so many cycles left. You know, there's there's room to run.

00;33;16;15 - 00;33;43;03
Unknown
It's not in the market today. And it's a new for this every day. What's happening in the news and what's happening with, you know, stock prices for retail or all these reason in really factories that is completely those companies are generating revenue. Right. And so, you know, it's completely detached from the room as well. So people have to remember, you know, just have to pause and reflect.

00;33;43;03 - 00;34;12;16
Unknown
And so this is a principle I was writing. I would periodically just kind of write speeches when things would hit me, because I get stuck having to give a speech here. Speech there. And, one of the speeches I started writing in January and February that obviously I didn't complete, although, I need to go back and check my, my, release letter to see if I actually own this or whether Kane Anderson owns it.

00;34;12;16 - 00;34;49;29
Unknown
But the, you know, the speech I started writing was just looking back at the internet technology bubble of the late 90s and early 2000, because you could run through literally the value, the valuation destruction. I mean, the Nasdaq fell 75%, you know, at one point there were 44 internet companies worth 15 billion or more. You could tick through all of the venture capital that was destroyed during that period.

00;34;50;01 - 00;35;27;29
Unknown
And it was just horrific. I mean, it was I don't know if you lived through that, 90s random consultant thinks you're really, really old, but, but anyway, I don't know if you lived through all that. I mean, the valuation destruction was amazing, and you got the whole thing about the death of technology, but if you stripped that aside and just looked at the operating statistics, number of websites, number of e-commerce trades done, if you looked at the speed of broadband, etc., I mean, all of that stuff was was up and to the right.

00;35;27;29 - 00;36;04;29
Unknown
I mean, it was literally doubling kind of every six months. The number of, you know, Wi-Fi connections you had, etc.. And so technology didn't die just because a lot of value, a lot of value was destroyed in fact, in a weird sort of way, the fact that the value spent so much money laying out broadband, I mean, 90% of all the T-1 lines in America were laid during that period with that money, and that made things so cheap that everybody could have a website and you could do e-commerce and the like.

00;36;05;02 - 00;36;26;19
Unknown
I think when we look back at the shale revolution, we're going to see a similar pattern just because a lot of value was destroyed, a lot of capital was destroyed. It doesn't mean that the fundamental underlying business went away. I mean, we're still going to use a lot of oil like you and I have been talking about all night.

00;36;26;21 - 00;36;55;05
Unknown
But at the end of the day, I think it was just a valuation and value destroyed, not a fundamental underlying business deciding to go away. Because at the end of the day, I mean, energy is still the second to third largest expense for most companies. But besides, they're people. Again, I think we will move the bubble analogy.

00;36;55;07 - 00;37;31;08
Unknown
You know, I think I think it was a perfect, you know, problem. Some of the petroleum and, you know, it was it was a long time ago, a relatively long time ago. But we had all the homework. Same thing with financial services. World War 10607. But it all starts with thought there might be some kind of paradigm shift in the tech bubble that was just there from the beginning of the world coming to come to be, and e-commerce tremendously simplifying financial services, probably 6 or 7 is probably the more ingrained in all of our heads.

00;37;31;11 - 00;38;05;01
Unknown
You know, the great paradigm shift there was, everyone is the home program and everyone needs to get them to low floor is the system off and forever you will see the horizontal drilling versus when new technology that follows from the on the world, you know, and on top about your partner coming out of a sudden array of these huge commodity supercycle orders, you know, I don't think people realized I was trying to build out the entire globe in terms of their stimulus at the time.

00;38;05;01 - 00;38;29;11
Unknown
It took a lot of commodities to get going. I said for the whole talk, you know, it was better than anyone. You also heard private equity firm. So you have all these like entrepreneurial capital available or all of a sudden being funded by the, the, the military does the stuff out and before, you know, the because boom. Thank you for it.

00;38;29;14 - 00;39;01;12
Unknown
Interest groups through all stages, all stages of a bubble and to literally just, you know, pool, you know, all the different things that were just entrepreneurial started, all those stages and all kinds of hurdles, like the merchant class website business, which how is number one? It's really a different from 1924. Right? Right. You're taking 29 hours of data, extrapolating 50 years of estimated ultimate recovery reserves and efficient, sure.

00;39;01;16 - 00;39;24;17
Unknown
But, you know, it's the same principle, some kind of relatively meaningless but also useful little manipulable data in your in the pointed out to to pump up whatever you want to pop up and so on equity or Solomon I sort of silenced Warren. So, so many things that if you really just shut down, roll through the parallels, it's almost perfect.

00;39;24;17 - 00;39;54;25
Unknown
But I don't know about you. I think people I think that's where you recognize that I don't think people generally view will live through as a bubble, even though I think it's very much worse. I, I think they're tougher. Shell. It's blown up. But it was really followed, albeit before that. And so that's one big for for people to remember it to the point coming out of that there's a lot of great companies to be bought or things Amazon went down.

00;39;54;25 - 00;40;20;15
Unknown
I forget 95% for the tech bubble. I mean, you know, the value structure is probably worse for some companies that ultimately ended up delivering all but the previous time around. But I don't know. I'm skeptical. It's going to be on for too long. But they're going to be wonders for our you know, it was interesting because, I think I'm stealing this from a Wells Fargo reserve or a research report.

00;40;20;17 - 00;40;51;15
Unknown
And so I'm sure you saw it, but, you know, 99 was kind of the year that tobacco. I mean, literally the final, final nail was, in the coffin on tobacco. It became on investable. You're killing people, etc., etc. no public fund would touch you anymore. And at that point, tobacco kind of had to look itself in the mirror and say, we have no more access to capital, etc. what do we do?

00;40;51;18 - 00;41;23;00
Unknown
And they really morphed into cutting costs, distributing capital and all. And if you look at the asset categories from 99 to 2019, kind of pre-COVID, literally the best performing asset class was tobacco. They were up ten acts just because they had no more access to capital, they had to run good businesses, etc.. And so I think we're kind of staring at that moment in the AMP world is all right.

00;41;23;00 - 00;41;40;07
Unknown
We've got to run good businesses. We've got to look at every cost. We've got to figure out, how we do this, how we send money back to shareholders because there is not this magical pot left there anymore. I mean, people keep saying, well, when we get back to 80, we'll get all this money, we can get drill again.

00;41;40;07 - 00;42;08;08
Unknown
I don't think that happens. I really do think we pissed off the world enough that that magic pot of money is not coming back. And so I think we're going to have to figure out how to live within our means. We're going to have to figure out how to create value. And it is a much longer row to hoe to get back in the good graces of investors than I think anyone truly appreciate.

00;42;08;11 - 00;42;42;13
Unknown
And so kind of with that, just to make this thing a little more interesting, I'd love to know. Energy cynic. What guy pissed in your Wheaties one morning? What do you have against P? That's the status quo. I mean, I think first and foremost, Ontario, it's not your be careful of broad brush characterizations of people, but, you know, it kind of goes hand in these parts of consumer corporate governance on the public side is been a baseball.

00;42;42;16 - 00;43;01;19
Unknown
And I think it's all just kind of linked together. But I think you just get, you know, one of the reasons I found a point to be more than almost off with storms before time was because it's just, you know, you don't see it. Right? It's kind of in the shadows or the certain value destruction is taking place.

00;43;01;21 - 00;43;26;26
Unknown
Maybe even more in some cases. There's even less of an opportunity for kind of doing things. If you think governance is bad for a company or, you know, what is governance for a president or a suspicion, as we're vested in several of them. But it's it's it's it's terrible. And ultimately, I think what we see, the public company, you know, you can say like, well, fuck this.

00;43;26;26 - 00;43;52;01
Unknown
Like this whole image released soon, I'm gonna listen to so many staff know, what are you doing for a private equity investor? And throughout the category of investor relations, pensions, you know, ultimate people who are taking who are people with the least amount of knowledge on it. So it's been working. I want say this is not clusters of phenomenon and suspicion at all.

00;43;52;03 - 00;44;15;06
Unknown
It's, it's it's very, you know, it's so dark and so messed up and then come over so bad Crosby Brown. And you cannot be in this industry. I know a lot of people like I used to work in private equity, know I people from my past, you know you're still for you're seeing some of the stuff in your portfolio and you're seeing this.

00;44;15;06 - 00;44;47;24
Unknown
You for your company is getting just destroyed. You're fired. All these people for jobs, and you're kind of looking up from the private equity community above, and it's relatively serene. Yeah, I know you saw that love for it personally. So you may have a different view, but, you know, when speaking, you know, within the circle for moves towards wins of dollars and they're still gainfully employed, making billions of dollars a year where, you know, companies are represented at torch money.

00;44;47;26 - 00;45;09;12
Unknown
I was one of those people without a job all the way down to a for the accounts payable, you know. So it's that big? Probably. You know what the right way to try to be is that you drove me crazy. You know that if it's good, people will be rewarded for the equity restoration. There's a lot of really amazing individuals, you know that.

00;45;09;13 - 00;45;37;17
Unknown
I know that, but as it's talent, one, it's been disappointing. Yeah. No, I think that's I think that's fair. I mean, the, the defense you hear or the difference you hear between governance on private equity. And then what you hear about public companies is at least with private equity, you as the investor, when you sign the documents, you know exactly what you've signed up for.

00;45;37;17 - 00;46;07;18
Unknown
You know what the fee schedule is. You know everything else that's going to happen. And at least the problem with the public companies, you don't know, I mean, you get disclosed after the fact. And so you've got a board that's potentially made up with friends of the CEO, and the company goes into bankruptcy, and all of a sudden they're bunch of bonuses, laid out.

00;46;07;20 - 00;46;39;26
Unknown
That being said, I do think the limited partner community has more in the way of influence than maybe you appreciate. I mean, because, yes, they're bad actors everywhere. I don't mean to imply otherwise, but at the end of the day, I mean, b reductions happen when performance is not, necessarily up to par. Capital is given back when opportunities aren't seen there.

00;46;40;03 - 00;47;07;18
Unknown
I mean, I think the MLPs would tell you it's more of a negotiation and, and a little rougher than it should be. But I do think I do think that that happens. And at the end of the day, the one nice thing about kind of private equity governance versus public company governance is, yes, public company, you can sell, you can move on private equity.

00;47;07;18 - 00;47;37;06
Unknown
You don't sign up for the next fund. And the second you don't sign up for the next fund, the firm is over. You know, so I'm not trying to be too big at home or to defend my brother. And because I mean, come on, all of us of, all of us know there are folks out there that push the system and the like, and there's certainly, certainly private equity funds that you're just going, oh my gosh, how do they have the gall to do that?

00;47;37;09 - 00;47;47;06
Unknown
But there's more of that than I think. You get credit for. Certainly out on the left.

00;47;47;09 - 00;48;31;00
Unknown
Well, yeah. No no no no. Nice try. Check. Why don't you go back to, drinking that view in 2009? No, no, I, I guess I'm it's just not an interesting problem, right? For person signing up for this forms. From what I've seen, and where you. I mean, it's usually to some management person. Right. And the ultimate person that's going to take the was someone who's not in the room, you know, for that reason, like, you know, rightly including people will get know about fees but before center.

00;48;31;02 - 00;48;57;00
Unknown
Right. And it's also hard to organize. And so early, you know, the whole, the whole fact that you can work through me, there's, there's so familiar frequently there's a lot of private enforcement at one, 1.1 gentlemen's, 1.2 works, which is so obvious this whole area is so forgotten. Who was unquantifiable upside and coined the term or something like that.

00;48;57;02 - 00;49;17;11
Unknown
You know, for people who are familiar with that, you know, if you're a private equity firm and work through a book sale to investors and you know, somewhat different result from, you know, you know, really good talk to us this semester. I'm a little paunchy as well. So I'm going to give myself a B-minus. But, you know, it's all coming.

00;49;17;14 - 00;49;45;23
Unknown
Whatever. You know, I don't know, it's, like, a little bit soft and, you know, gentlemen's 1.2 trucks come from work. You know, you never store. I mean, out of the whole sector valuation system. Quoting in a different world, you know, I see what's going on with ugly, you know, the one from 1.2. Yeah. 1.1, you know, so there's stuff like that.

00;49;45;25 - 00;50;14;01
Unknown
But that really irks me. Yeah. I mean, it's just this, this two world system. But you see, where, you know, you know, we're in the snap process, the carmakers from around all these kind of mergers and oil companies from the end of the day, like all of you feel the equity tools that you have complete right across institutions that, you know, we're going to give you more the foreign investment that we we don't want.

00;50;14;01 - 00;50;39;25
Unknown
Everything is now the training. And so, you know, board of every decision. And despite that, you know, and it's the family home around the folks who are buying stacked up, pregnant women moms. But, you know, it is what it is, but, I think that's a moment that really just to a lot of people, I'm going to show you the TV was talking about point haul.

00;50;39;27 - 00;51;09;26
Unknown
I might have been between ninth and ten through 12. One call. But, you know, it's a really tough system for people because at the end of the day, you know, you enforced. You make sure you're way off of the company of people because the National Young I've said this before like, you know, you've got accountants losing their jobs and then you have no, these are people that are, you know, 67 mature and, you know, it's been a do over the last decade.

00;51;09;26 - 00;51;31;27
Unknown
And they're getting blown out into the open. The people who were on the board made a decision to power them safe. And if it's not safe, no. Still from making a ton of money and so stuff like that. This is this is a little whipsawed. We're going to call this out. But you know, like you said, there's there's reasons that this sounds this and stuff.

00;51;31;27 - 00;51;48;13
Unknown
And people should recognize that. It doesn't mean that we can't be soft. It doesn't mean that, I mean, we all want and want a problem that we can step up a little bit more and be like this. We get it. This is, I'm sure you know, and and we're going to do something to try to address that.

00;51;48;13 - 00;52;17;22
Unknown
So I think that's a goal that I think that would be, you know, and I think that's fair. I think when you had private equity funds marking their equity at an uplift when the debt associated with those companies was trading at a discount to par, I mean, come on, you know, I mean, that's, you know, making the story that, well, I can buy the debt back end cheaper.

00;52;17;22 - 00;53;06;16
Unknown
That means my equity is worth more. I mean, that's B.S. and that that's a fair criticism. I'll tell you, my view of LPs is they were a lot more skeptical of that. So I don't know that the gentleman's one point to really influenced folks as much as someone might think. I think where that actually becomes a true issue is when you get into the point of the fee structure, when you're paying fees on dollars invested, lower of dollars invested, or fair market value of the assets and and I'll tell you, you know, my experience there is, at the end of the day, LPs are pretty critical there, you know, in terms of focusing on

00;53;06;16 - 00;53;43;08
Unknown
tomorrow and you're not really worth x, blah, blah, blah and and the like. But no, I think a lot of what you just said about private equity is fair because at the end of the day, you're right. We control the board. We're making the decisions. You know, the fact not to, sell for 1.5 times your money because you're holding out for A2X for whatever reason, and you should have taken the 1.5 because, I said this on the last podcast with RV and Kitty.

00;53;43;10 - 00;54;18;21
Unknown
I mean, I think we as an industry, just way oversold and, you know, pot calling kettle black right here. You know, we way oversold our ability to generate alpha in this business, particularly with the scale of dollars that we had to try to do that. And we just way undersold the effects of the beta. And what was going to happen on our companies, our projects and the like when oil prices went down.

00;54;18;22 - 00;54;46;04
Unknown
Because at the end of the day, I mean, if you really look back from sort of 2004, it's basically $100 oil going to $35 oil and any investment these, the shale or the otherwise would fail in that scenario. And we just way undersold one. The ability of that to happen. Now granted we didn't see a virus coming that was going to cause a pandemic and shut down the world.

00;54;46;07 - 00;55;07;17
Unknown
But at the same point, I think it's fair to say, you know, hey, back in 2017, maybe you should have seen that we've got enough oil here. And at the end of the day, the way the public companies are going to keep spending, it's capped at 50. It's just not going much higher. So I do think a lot of the criticisms fair.

00;55;07;19 - 00;55;37;21
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, you said something about mean the words of using the last Parker for choosing Alpha was fucking up all the good. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think there's something to that of me to totally get the, the double quotes coming from a box of 35, but, you know, the Energy Industries Award. I mean, I think part of the problem this is not one of the problems, especially U.S. oil problem is everyone was just warm.

00;55;37;23 - 00;56;04;10
Unknown
You know, including every private, every, public company. They were below that is like, well, you know, maybe there is also in the sense that, like when everyone else was going to the formula wherever, you know, maybe the move was to be bond, you know, under us. Right, which is what you're going through first before and now looks like people are doing nothing about it.

00;56;04;12 - 00;56;32;12
Unknown
Oh, there's a place shift. So I posted about that and I was like, it becomes important. A huge driver, but your point you're taking private equity is that, you know, we're going to suffer from this cycle. You know, if you have a long talk, it all boils down to produce a large you can get to the other side in this formula if you will get it.

00;56;32;15 - 00;56;56;18
Unknown
And I think the pools are where you are right. I don't have an example of that. Yeah. For me on my blog, I think you can generally off on both sides thinking about it. Most people but working in investment sort of I think utensil is probably doesn't investments once you know we're going to do just fine and even stuff.

00;56;56;18 - 00;57;28;29
Unknown
I was invested more for years and so it's possible. But I think the real problem tell me for Matthew, but, you know, you also have the part of the local industry here, you know, scaling from size into all of the massive super short rival kind of firms to be the early 2000 square when I was born. And, you know, it's just kind of growing and growing and growing and, you know, everyone's getting bigger and bigger farms because it's hard not to because these firms atrocious things are huge.

00;57;29;06 - 00;58;12;25
Unknown
You know, you want to be a super successful production person from a your father would order for him size for 5 billion, all for any size. You're basically doubling down with each farm. Really cycle. And so by definition, bigger space. You know, the cycle moved to another role. Now, don't you wonder if someone did like $2.2 million, but started to describe what you want to sort of do in order for billion over 40, whatever number was not be built for how they built the thing.

00;58;12;27 - 00;58;46;06
Unknown
You know, I'm, I'm a few of you know. Well, I mean, I think I think what, what people would say was that was Ellie Simmons at LCF. I mean, Ellie always kind of cap fun sizes and played with smaller funds because he felt like he the opportunities were better and I don't know, his returns. I've never been an LP there, but at least that's kind of the feedback you heard from, from investors was, you know, Ellie just can always manage the size.

00;58;46;09 - 00;59;08;16
Unknown
You know, the other thing that was tough and, this is what I kind of struggled with looking at. It is, you know, we kept talking about the fund size, getting bigger and all that. If you looked at when I joined Kane, which was right at the end of Energy Fund one, our average well cost $600,000 to drill.

00;59;08;19 - 00;59;42;24
Unknown
It was a vertical with a one stage frac. You know, at the end you're drilling a $10 million. Well, it's got 92 stages in the frac and the like, and you paid whatever you paid for the acreage. And so to some degree, just the cost of poker went up because of the concentration issue. And you're sitting there going, all right, well, you know, if every fund should be 12 to 15 companies, how much does a company need?

00;59;42;24 - 01;00;12;27
Unknown
Well, back in, you know, 2001, when I joined Kane, 20, 30, $40 million might be appropriate to be able to play. It would have been foolhardy to try to lease acreage and drill one test. Well, that's about what $40 million would get you, because I'll tell you this every first. Well, we drilled even Silver Hill, which was, you know, one of the best deals we ever did.

01;00;13;00 - 01;00;55;07
Unknown
You couldn't tell anything from that first. Well, and, so, you know, on one hand, I get the whole point. You're getting a bigger, bigger fund. You get more in the way of fees. But the price of poker just to play the game went up dramatically. And I think the other thing that happened two, during that period, and again, I don't want to sound too much like a home or for the oil and gas private equity world, but, you know, you went into a period where institutions, endowments, pension funds said, we want let's make up a percent, 10% of our portfolio allocated to energy.

01;00;55;09 - 01;01;34;10
Unknown
And that's just a lot of money. When you look across all the pension funds, all the endowments in America and the like. And so even though energy is way underperformed, if you look at the portfolios of all of these entities, they've actually done really well versus kind of historical norms. If you want to measure returns against, you know, the stock market returns against debt and the like, and I think at least part of it, and we can probably have some EFP guys out there that are quant jocks go crunch these numbers.

01;01;34;10 - 01;02;08;29
Unknown
But I mean, Amazon went on its run because oil was at 40. I mean, the reason they can deliver at home and the reason they can move products overnight all around the country is because of lower energy prices of oil had been at $100, and I'd been throwing up three X funds all during that period. I guarantee you Amazon would not have run like it had Apple would not have run like it had, because at the end of the day, Apple's got to move its products all across, America.

01;02;08;29 - 01;02;40;26
Unknown
It takes a lot of energy to build iPhones and the like. And so I think at least part of the 90% of the portfolio that wasn't energy performed really well because of the low energy prices we generated for folks, because we were I mean, to take away did we generate returns for people and did we make money? We did some really great things in terms of lowering energy costs in the world.

01;02;40;29 - 01;03;10;20
Unknown
And so I think that's that's a, another thing that I think gets missed particularly. And, you know, I hate to talk bad about HFT, but I think it gets missed on EFP that ultimately these investors had a portfolio. They made a very rational choice to have certain percentages here. And there. And for the most part, their their portfolios have performed really well despite energy.

01;03;10;20 - 01;03;43;05
Unknown
But I can't help believe that energy, low energy prices, wasn't part of that performance. Yeah, I can see that argument. I think it's interesting. I believed it the whole time I was saying it. Certainly. Yeah. What you're saying is like basically investor dollars subsidize, you know, cheaper prices and benefits and, you know, benefits manifest themselves. In other words, probably true.

01;03;43;05 - 01;04;11;20
Unknown
But it's also cannibalize the point we're making earlier. Understand you a little bit of a distorted effect on the supply control world, right. You've got all this capital being force fed system, right? It's coming from private equity, like you said before, and know when you turn personality to energy, it's coming from the public equity markets from credit markets were really powerful was wanting to into this massive growth.

01;04;11;23 - 01;04;41;24
Unknown
If your lessons were driven by shale, and unlike other bubbles, if we're talking about the bubble concept or, you know, the tech bubble where valuations could go just explosion in whatever prices, were from reality, right? Like it doesn't even manifest itself on the ground. With energy it's different, right? Because you have this insane bubble, who's always dependent on them to import depressed prices.

01;04;41;24 - 01;05;15;21
Unknown
But, you know, credit goes back to the lower point where it just becomes. Just the opposite of a force feeding. You know, the system the question becomes, is a private equity investor here. The dollar is reliable to take them, to take them. What do you you know, you up the investment drive through decision. And I think that probably is probably a lot of the criticism of private equity is that at the end of the day, it's a different business from the oil and gas business.

01;05;15;21 - 01;05;43;26
Unknown
It is it is it is a fund raising business. Right. And so you have some of the problems we've used for the money. So business or you know, your thoughts from 2000, master, which again is really, you know, the answer is warm. I'm just going to read through the rest. From what you see happening in again, not to jump around, but if you look at the energy transition, it's really like people are trying to raise money.

01;05;43;26 - 01;06;09;04
Unknown
And I try, I don't think because the people that make money in the the reason money or because money is available off you, it's more of an existential position. It's sort of. No, I think you're I think you're exactly right there. I mean, that's one of the things that I've told myself is I never want to work for a money management firm.

01;06;09;06 - 01;06;41;01
Unknown
When you view the monthly financials and it's your profit and loss as a money management business versus, okay, we invested money and what did we get, you know, are people making money and the like, I agree with you 100% there because I do think I do think too many people sit around and view themselves as a money management firm and not quote unquote, investors.

01;06;41;01 - 01;07;13;23
Unknown
And so I've, I've kind of said that to myself, that no matter what happens to me, the rest of, rest of my career, I am never going to work for a money management firm, because at the end of the day, I do think you're right. You know, incentives get distorted when it's, oh, I can take this money and I can go invest in energy transition because my $0.02 worth looking at, that is way more money chasing the number of opportunities that are truly out there.

01;07;13;26 - 01;07;39;00
Unknown
And to the extent all the money that wants to invest in that space gets invested. I mean, we're not even talking series A level risk. We're talking pre-series A level risk in terms of real venture type stuff's going to get invested in. And that's just the toughest thing to invest in out there. So I agree with you there 100%.

01;07;39;03 - 01;08;01;16
Unknown
You know. Yeah I mean it's it's it's those that for a leadership point with me you just can't more people say you know what I'm tempted to do that. But you know thank you for the Google solve. But we're going to have to double down. You don't have to say. And but we do know the opportunities coming out of the traditional business and like it's the time.

01;08;01;17 - 01;08;24;05
Unknown
But we did it on time to the and know. So it's a little discouraging because these are the people you see doing the pivots. It's just one approach to it. So I think there's more people are sticking to the routine and trying to find new opportunities in traditional sort of you waiting for me and more music.

01;08;24;08 - 01;08;49;02
Unknown
I mean, often people do, sort of things that are contribution funds and all these different, you know, new rules of and for us to improve. But I think, I think people know these are constantly, you know, far out of form of the past. And in the traditional experience. I've driven from far away to invest. Because if if you believe everything we're saying here, it's, it's it's all for work.

01;08;49;03 - 01;09;18;12
Unknown
We talked about earlier for the whole cycle. So people need to give for. Yeah, it has to. So what's the what's this guy's name that has all the SPACs? That's totally scared to death of you. You know, Chamath aka pronounced the guy power outage for me. I know, I know, you know, it's funny, I before him I mean, he's been on CNBC for some.

01;09;18;15 - 01;09;49;09
Unknown
I'm controlled. I'm remarkably you know, if you really want to understand any 3 million views on a couple of them, but yeah, this guy is like the poster child, which I did, you know, just can't do it on stocks. I think, you know, beyond your CAGR to purchase stocks for people with similar strategies, basically these capital raise for a bunch of forms.

01;09;49;09 - 01;10;19;13
Unknown
Whoever. And, you know, it's just basically a short form, I guess is the way you describe it. Unobtrusive, you know, the strong, is drawn in the form of the components of your, so, you know, there's all these point around and, what's up point about home. So when it goes back, very important for, you know, sort of your final and so Greenfield where I'm gonna go raise money for steel.

01;10;19;14 - 01;10;53;17
Unknown
So no, I'm school reform. And I'll figure it out. And worst case, like reform should be your, your, 50% of care for the rest of your sentence. And, it's just, you know, it's only 75 year old or $40. But for the tech industry, which is going through its own form right now. Yeah, no, it's kind of crazy because, SPACs and it stands for special purpose acquisition company or corporation.

01;10;53;19 - 01;11;22;17
Unknown
And they were originally pitched as the democratization of venture capital. Right. We're going to bring venture capital to the masses. These great deals done in private equity. We're going to let public investors do it. And the whole set up was we go raise this money. The money sits on the balance sheet of this publicly traded company. And then when we go find a deal to buy, the shareholders get to vote on it.

01;11;22;20 - 01;11;53;23
Unknown
And it really isn't fundamentally any different than a regular S-1 IPO process. Right. Because the the you've got to when you when a Spac buys something it's got to give follow the s for which no different really than an S-1. It gives the investors all the information and then they need to, then they need to vote on whether they want to do the deal or not.

01;11;53;26 - 01;12;24;17
Unknown
And, you know, I'm actually really cynical on SPACs because I think it was, at least originally set up by investors, private equity, venture capital type investors to really be the way that we get the banks to stop charging a 7% for an IPO. Instead, we're going to make them pay. You know, we're going to pay 2.5% or 3%.

01;12;24;19 - 01;12;51;24
Unknown
And then if we're able to successfully de Spac, if I buy an asset or buy a company, then we'll pay them a little bit more. I think it was actually set up by the investing community to try to get banking fees down. And then the flip side is the bankers almost turned it against venture capital funds and private equity funds and said, hey guys, we're just going to go do a whole lot of these.

01;12;51;24 - 01;13;26;16
Unknown
And instead of you guys getting to invest in these companies, they're going to go public through the Spac. So I think it's been kind of a pissing match between the investing community and the investment banks that take people public. But you're right. I mean, if you dig into the returns, it's it's ridiculous. I think the average IPO, traditional IPO, S-1 process that folks go through versus Spac returns is like -18% delta.

01;13;26;16 - 01;13;51;12
Unknown
So, I mean, SPACs just perform horribly over time. And it's exactly what you said. I mean, whoever sponsors the Spac, all they did was put up the money to pay for the fees. But they get, you know, whatever the promoters, 20% of the ups, if a deal gets done. So all they've got to do is go convince investors that this is a good deal.

01;13;51;12 - 01;14;25;22
Unknown
And it's just been a mess. So, I've been shocked that the number of SPACs that have been done so crazy is on so many. I mean, there's been an emerging SPACs, and we all know the name of someone ultimately saw Jesus and unbelievable stuff. And we've all, you know, emotionally imploded. I mean, if you took the rate of return -18% sounds fucking great, pastor, compared to what I do myself, I think it should be for the energy SPACs as a category.

01;14;25;25 - 01;14;58;14
Unknown
And like I think it's a leading utility. We went through our boom, we did our SPACs. You know, some people did great for ten minutes. And then we all imploded. And there's a couple of reform around. Maybe there's there's still a couple of em around. They're just kind of up because there's misalignment. So it's not I mean, there's legitimate SPACs out there to, you know, get them all the broad brush or some people who are doing them who were the general investors were just doing what's right for their shareholders or whatever.

01;14;58;14 - 01;15;26;15
Unknown
But, you know, you cannot know the list of people right, in spots in the summer of 2020 and be like, this is like a fucking Star Wars 15, of just, you know, years where people rather died for money ball. I mean, every I mean, it was every day there was a mission. Paul Ryan has a Spac. I mean, yeah, sponsored by Mitt Romney's family office.

01;15;26;15 - 01;15;53;22
Unknown
You just you just like, wow. And it just goes on and on. Just doesn't like, you know, you're like, well, that's particularly more stupid than that. And then, like, next day's vote for contract. And it just got to a point where it's so absurd and, you know, it's it's so, you know, even beyond the alignment issues of probably lead to a lot of problems, which of course, the sky is so probably guarded warm up about it.

01;15;53;22 - 01;16;14;22
Unknown
So, I mean, you of just, you know, I slapped them a little bit with a like I do sometimes. He was like, oh, show them the work. And, you know, it's really been very similar work sort of started this time around. And he kind of like you said. But I mean, these guys know what they're doing, you know, I mean, I think fundamentally deep down everyone knows to do it.

01;16;14;24 - 01;16;52;24
Unknown
So, yeah. It's but what's so depressing about it, you know, it's want one in the middle of a freaking pandemic, you know, like, everyone's locked in their houses. There's no connection to those made. So I don't know about you, but, you know, talk more. Girls are cars. You come on in the middle of all their story, people, you know, all these characters we just talked about, you know, instead of one compliment from me, you know, I don't know, just stepping up a little bit of, you know, taking a leadership role in some way.

01;16;52;27 - 01;17;18;17
Unknown
You know, they decide on a deliverance path. So I'm, I'm an honorary, I mean, that's up to me, you know, to be overly principled. I'm. I'm an important person, but I don't know if everyone is all wealthy for the most part. Right. And so really, that's what you're going to do this year. It just it just broke Mariah.

01;17;18;19 - 01;17;43;11
Unknown
Yeah. No, that was actually one of the biggest compliments that I got, out on Twitter. And it wasn't you that, the that, said it. Oh, no. No, it actually was you that said it, it was part of that. It was part of that whole rant. You, you had about me, you said, because one of my LPs actually said, I don't get the fascination with Chuck.

01;17;43;11 - 01;18;08;01
Unknown
Yeah. Twitter. You know, why is why is everybody talking about him on Twitter? And, you actually tweeted back, he hangs with Jewel, but that's it. And I'm like, yeah, true enough. And he got and then voted most likely in the energy business to wake up in a bathtub full of, ice with one kidney. But to his credit, he didn't sell out and do as fact.

01;18;08;03 - 01;18;42;05
Unknown
So I didn't. Words for the word. Yeah. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. The, the, Yeah. No, because, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, this. Yeah, this this bag things just I it makes sense when you have an avenue to see certain deal flow that's outside your parameters, but you get to see those deals, and you need a different type of capital source to potentially access that.

01;18;42;05 - 01;19;03;21
Unknown
But any time you're getting an up front promote, those are usually bad. I mean, you just the promote structure needs to be that when the investors get their money back and some sort of return, you know, them being will will back into the profits and that that would make it I think a a better, more fair type system.

01;19;03;23 - 01;19;30;05
Unknown
So this guy won't, won't, won't debate you. Yeah. I guess what I'm, I'm, I'm thinking about taking him to the Maxwell Walmart for how to do that. Well, Taunton, would you in some point, I might write off some of the stuff that he's some sort or set in some form. Right. Just come disappear to this fact, check them out for free.

01;19;30;05 - 01;19;49;14
Unknown
Now he's on the campaign. Or just simply. She's always pumping them up. So ridiculous. You know? What are you or should I feel at this point or, I guess they or, you know, maybe he said something. I'm pissed off. I don't know what it is all of a sudden. You know what? I want to host my own Q&A sessions.

01;19;49;15 - 01;20;21;04
Unknown
No, I'm not on CNBC. You know, I don't want them asking me questions. So where we are. Thank you for all of these. Open for. You probably won't start this conversation. Whatever. You know, that's the great thing about Twitter's internal open. People told me what year, you know, whatever escalated your controllers because of words, which was, you know, I got a lot of the, kind of freaked me out that we had a back and forth, you know, some of his investors in the SPACs or somebody like.

01;20;21;04 - 01;20;40;22
Unknown
Well, what do you mean? I'm not going to, like, go through this long exploration of seafood. So the whole question, but, you know, you start understanding the problems, people. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I invested in Mico, that one was really cool about your money. And so maybe you're right. Maybe I should, like, put, like a way that works for me in the next one.

01;20;40;27 - 01;20;44;12
Unknown
Oh. How would you describe going.

01;20;44;14 - 01;21;12;16
Unknown
In and start going into brutality of some of these people orders. For your sons, for, It's so scary, you know? And so you try your best to start doing, but not be respectful. You'll be okay. I'm very strict about throwing whatever you know about the lessons, so, but there's there's there's a lot of knowledge which just doesn't.

01;21;12;18 - 01;21;32;17
Unknown
Yeah, obviously, it's been written while, I think we can do it all. So I think it's a great positive for society. But as you know, it's all from work, you know, no one's really going to change their behavior because they're here for resolve. Issues are more important to me. So it's kind of you on the wound but want to reach for you.

01;21;32;19 - 01;21;54;05
Unknown
I don't know, man. Any time you get a chance to invest in a car company whose biggest video is the car actually rolling down a hill, you kind of got to do it, right? I mean, I know it came out. I got to be honest, I, I was critical. It was I went through with the founder. You just go to the Wikipedia page.

01;21;54;05 - 01;22;25;14
Unknown
This is sort of the, in your readers bios. A guy worked really hard after his one semester at Grand Valley University. You call, you know, dropped out. This doesn't add up. This is weird. You know, the story is one of the $27 billion company. What? I'm sure there's some questions probably on Instagram. Short order. I don't know, because people, you know, start on Twitter really gone.

01;22;25;14 - 01;22;56;00
Unknown
But he's using GM. He's been all about our support for him on Facebook or whatever. Maybe, you know, before him, you know, just whatever comes out for 20, 15 minutes, you know, the best part about I don't know if you want to put some of this, but the only revenue being generated from this company was like the revenue derived from installing solar panels and one of the c suite cars and trucks.

01;22;56;03 - 01;23;27;17
Unknown
I mean, he treated like a reimbursement. I don't know, thousand dollars. That was it was the only revenue of his company. And they were late installing it. Right? I mean, it was it was like four weeks late and you're like going, this is the only thing this company has going on, though. Yeah. No, it's, it's crazy how the public market has decided it wants to, play venture capital on, on these things, but, you know, at the end of the day, it's, it's been a wild year.

01;23;27;19 - 01;24;11;12
Unknown
I mean, there's no question that, that 2020 has been crazy. So energy cynic. We always close each podcast with five questions. The five questions I, I like where this went. Let's do this. The five questions. Let's actually create the action items here. Let's lay out the plan and figure out who's in charge of what. So number one, question one who's the committee that comes up with public company governance.

01;24;11;15 - 01;24;42;23
Unknown
Skilling skilling skilling. Oh. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think still is The Godfather. I mean, he's got to be on there. He's pointing out this stuff more than anyone. You know, I'm always asking you to, to, to use that term, O-m-g credit. It's just, you know, him, or a lot of people who do, market research and then start with, like it.

01;24;42;29 - 01;25;11;10
Unknown
All right. To skilling LNG credit. You you're going to come back with is it fair to ask for a ten point plan or you could do anything for some with it. All right. We got a ten point plan. All right. So who. Question two who are we going to put in charge of the governance accountability. The we're watching your shit.

01;25;11;12 - 01;25;44;01
Unknown
We're on this. Don't screw up for private equity. Who's doing that? I'm I'm going to be Harvey. Okay. I like that you show unitary, you remove the board and fellowship themselves up as a duo. So although here's what I think we have to do on that. And, maybe we don't, like, publicly tell him this or the like, but, you know, if he's going to write 90 pages on Whiting, he can give us 15 on private equity.

01;25;44;01 - 01;25;46;29
Unknown
Right?

01;25;47;01 - 01;26;13;04
Unknown
Because there was a group. Right. So he's already gotten many, many consortium made the one reports and nobody else knows them all the cabal. We'll put the cabal together to, to do private equity. All right. Question three. We're handling the public company CEOs. We're handling the private equity guys.

01;26;13;06 - 01;26;54;20
Unknown
Number three, who's going to be in charge of the commercial banks to save Buck and stop loaning 70% of PDP ten when we they want to put that input to be put in charge of that. At this point, okay. So enforce that. Maybe. Okay, maybe that's fair. Maybe that's already been done. Already been done. So question four as we're coming up with our list of people to help govern the industry and go, go forward, who's our ray of sunshine?

01;26;54;22 - 01;27;24;16
Unknown
I mean, who is our optimist? Who are we putting in charge of? You know, the sun will come out tomorrow. Tomorrow? Who's that person? And mean corporate making self solve for a little bit of you. Look, God, we should aspire to more when I'm your ray of hope for us. Oh, maybe you. And maybe that's one for them.

01;27;24;17 - 01;27;56;19
Unknown
You know, I'm. I'm this accounts. Because, you know, the anonymous girls tend to be the good posters enforcers. And maybe you'd be hard on you, you know, let's go to this podcast. Maybe you guys come and Pickering, we'll write. We'll rope Dan into there. All right. We're the Ray of Hope Committee. Oh, I love that. This is coming from the man who voted me the most likely an energy to wake up in a bathtub full of ice with one kidney.

01;27;56;21 - 01;28;23;25
Unknown
Almost ruined. Oh, we're. You know. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not sure it hadn't happened. I look back periodically for scar marks. Okay. Wasn't that bad a night, and I'm still got my kidneys. I like that, so question five as we're laying out how we're changing the world and how we're coming through all this, what the hell are we going to do with Quickdraw?

01;28;23;28 - 01;28;52;16
Unknown
You got a part? Just you, putting up with your representation? We need to get someone from the northeast together, but we're still fighting. So get them on. I think it'd be a form of formal, conversation with them, and my respect goes to them as well. So. But, you know, once it's on North Korea, I don't know, like, the problem is what's going to happen after that to withdraw.

01;28;52;18 - 01;29;15;29
Unknown
But the response would be the one. That's awesome. Good deal. Well, energy cynic, you're very awesome to have. Come on tonight. I really enjoyed this. It's, it's cool getting to, getting to visit with you because it's it's always fun, you know, tweeting back and forth, but, getting a whole, you know, hour and a half, two hours with you is awesome.

01;29;16;02 - 01;29;40;19
Unknown
Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for doing that. Is there any more serious support from Barack Obama? But, you know, it was it was one formal one without some rather, we want to do it again. But you have no place to be honest from, from getting all these anonymous counseling. And then, of course, everybody doing so now, it was, it was very cool.

01;29;40;19 - 01;30;10;17
Unknown
We do have to close this, though, with, I don't know what caused you on June 30th to just rank because you and I had not been going back and forth on Twitter or anything, but you just randomly tweeted out a guy who took a bunch of condoms, taped them together, and created a shirt out of it, and he had blue jean shorts on it that were hanging down so that you could actually see that he was wearing a thong.

01;30;10;20 - 01;30;42;06
Unknown
And you tweeted that picture out and you said, you know, I saw Nimble Fatty in Colorado. And the weirdest, scariest thing about that is I was actually in Colorado at the time. And so I was like, God, oh my God. Fortunately, the picture was not me. But, I'll be honest, I saw the picture. And whatever reason I instantly thought of you, I think it was the form because he ran out of funds.

01;30;42;06 - 01;31;41;28
Unknown
But, I got to go out there and, you know, the fact that you were actually on a Colorado was personal. Were you aware, that's what we call serendipity in the business or. Yeah, I was there was this moment.